00:00 Hello, I'm Seth For Privacy, and welcome to Season 2, Episode 12 of Opt Out. Opt Out's a show where I sit down with passionate people to learn why privacy matters to them, the tools and techniques they've found and leveraged, and where we encourage and inspire others towards personal privacy and data sovereignty. Have you been struggling to find ways to get a usable and long-lasting phone number without giving up your ID or your privacy? This episode, we're going to sit down with Silent.Link to chat about their phone number service via eSIMS.

Welcome on to Opt Out, Silent. Happy to be on your podcast. Yeah, so thankful we were able to work at a time that you could jump in and we could chat a little bit more about your service, because I think there's so much value in being able to acquire a phone number, much less the ability to use data and SMS and everything, but getting that usable phone number without having to directly link it to ID, which I know can be tricky, and it's really tricky in any country, but it can be very difficult in some, even more than others.

So it's been a great way that I've been using, to get a public number that I can use for my name that I go under with this podcast, and that will be used for Signal, and there's just so much value there. So I'm really looking forward to learning more today about the service you provide and your approach and your thought process behind it, and hopefully letting listeners better understand what Silent.Link does. But for those who aren't familiar with you specifically or with Silent.Link, do you mind just introducing yourself and what Silent.Link does?

I'm Silent.Link admin, and I should say we consider our task of allowing our customers to connect to data services much more important than providing them with phone numbers. But as long as we have services that still require text verification, we are happy to provide whatever is necessary for our customers to be able to do that. Yeah, definitely so much value there. And I know that a lot of people in the privacy community have really been excited with what Silent.Link can offer and want to dive a little bit more into that.

But before we do, do you mind just maybe walking us through what it was that woke you up to the need for personal privacy? When I was four, maybe five years old, I learned that it's generally not a good idea to tell everyone everything about yourself, what you're thinking, what you're doing. I don't remember the exact time, but it happened pretty early. I understood that concealing information about yourself and your endeavors is a basic human right.

Later on I learned it's called privacy, and it should be respected by your friends, by your family, and other decent human beings. Then I grew up and started working in the field of mobile telecommunications, and what I learned there is that telecoms do not care that much about this very basic human right of their subscribers, despite stating the opposite. Your calls, records, your text messages, even your location data are meticulously collected and insecurely stored.

Sometimes they get handed over to third parties. I learned that telecom networks, especially mobile networks, are built from the ground up, not only for their main function, which is telecommunication, but as much for surveillance. The implications of this approach lead to ordinary people having their most sensitive private information, like their identity, their physical location, and in many cases even the contents of their supposedly private communications being available to literally anyone interested.

Like for less than $200, any person positioning himself as a private investigator can obtain the physical location of any person in the United States. Whenever a child owns a mobile phone, it kinda becomes an issue. I would say, your physical location is the place where your privacy meets your security. Then, you must have heard of the so-called SIM toolkit attacks. That is, exploiting the surveillance functionality of the SIM technology today control over your phone to record your voice calls or even eavesdrop on the surroundings of your mobile phone, even when it's not on a call.

These surveillance capabilities became so easily accessible to malevolent actors and overarching authorities that owning a mobile phone itself is becoming a risk factor. And let me ask you, can you really afford not to use a mobile phone nowadays? I'm glad you mentioned that last question because I think oftentimes people recommend just like, oh, okay, just don't use a mobile phone or always leave your phone at home. And I definitely think like that is a best case scenario if you can afford to do that.

But it's getting harder and harder, honestly, to navigate the world and to stay in communication with people as necessary and really to just be a part of society if you want to be a part of society without having access to a mobile phone. And it's really kind of becoming a requirement at this point. So I'm glad that you realize that that's not necessarily something that you can afford to do. But if you can't afford to do that, you need ways to be able to access mobile privacy.

No matter what applications you're running on top of that, you still need to gain that location privacy. You need to gain that privacy for any text messages, calls, any of the other things that you have to do through those networks. So I think those are definitely very important pieces there. And I'm sure a lot of that went into the creation of Silent.Link. But what was it that made you take the jump and kick off Silent.Link as a service? First of all, the understanding of the risks of using mobile phone.

And secondly, the knowledge of the practices of privacy and security were people, high stakes individuals in the organizations that were trying to mitigate the risks of using mobile networks. And secondly, the knowledge of the practices of privacy and security were people, of high stakes individuals in the organizations that were trying to mitigate the risks of using mobile networks. The thing is, almost since the inception of first GSM networks that introduced a pluggable subscriber identification module or SIM card as we know it, and introduced extensive cross-network roaming.

VIP individuals were often preferring to use SIM cards abroad from abroad and use them in their home networks, in so-called international roaming, regardless of a much higher cost. The reason being is that GSM international roaming itself provides much more privacy to the roaming mobile user than to an ordinary home network user. A local carrier lets you make and receive calls and texts, use mobile data, but it doesn't even know your phone number.

It cannot control your phone number. That became an important form of digital identity. It cannot re-issue your number to your adversary. Your data connection goes back to the operator that is your SIM and you connect to internet resources from there. And even the strict KYC requirements for the mobile network access that are in place in many, if not in most of the countries, can be circumvented if you source your SIM card from a place where they just do not exist.

Now the question was how to have these foreign SIM cards delivered to customers without having to send a physical item. That's why the eSIM technology provides a good solution. Finally, how to sell the SIM allowing the payer to preserve his or her anonymity. This is where the permissionless payments with Bitcoin or Monero come into play. Once the pieces fell into place, we kind of fell obliged to build our service. Yeah, definitely an interesting perspective there that once these technologies existed, it really was a responsibility for someone with the know-how to step in and provide a service like this.

And I never really considered that connection between using a SIM that's provided by someone other than your carrier kind of breaks the direct trust links that you have with them. Because like you mentioned, the SIM issuers, the one has control over the phone number and visibility into that. And then the local network is the one actually serving you, serving as like kind of the first hop in your network. And you're able to break that direct link and control between the carrier you're actively using locally and the person who actually issued the SIM.

So that's definitely a piece of things that I never really considered before. And I guess that's also an advantage of using something like Silent.Link over just kind of a SIM over-the-counter-for-cash approach, which can be also a very good approach because it does break the link between your personal ID and the SIM card. But it doesn't break the other issues that can come with that, like the ability for that network to reissue your number to someone doing a SIM swap attack or other things like that.

So definitely an interesting piece there that I had not thought of.

10:00 And then, so this one may be kind of obvious, but I think it's important to touch on, but I'm curious what it is that you hope that users get from using Silent.Link. You've touched on a bit of the security advantages and privacy advantages, but what's kind of the core of what you're hoping people who get an eSIM from Silent.Link gain? - What we are trying to do here is to provide our users with a way to access mobile networks in the safest, most private way possible, regardless of where they are and when they need it.

We hope that privacy conscious people will be able to prevent themselves from being brutally tracked by malevolent actors and overreaching authorities. Also, we provide the lowest possible rates for the mobile data when you are traveling without the need of going through the hassle of sourcing a local SIM card. We think that using our eSIM should be an everyday solution for accessing the mobile networks for all privacy conscious individuals. - Yeah, especially when you are roaming and constantly switching data providers or using one that you don't even necessarily trust, give you a SIM card.

You definitely want a way to be able to remove the trust that they could inspect the data you're sending through them by using a solid non-logging, well-respected VPN, or like you said, using Tor, because it's important that you don't just assume that your activities are private or even that your identity is hidden if you're just putting all your data through that network. They could still do things like fingerprinting and try to find ways to tie down who you are or maybe just what your interests are or what you do.

So using something like a solid VPN or a Tor network is definitely a super important piece of that. And that really applies to any kind of mobile network usage. That's something that I definitely recommend anyone use, but I guess even more so when you're not even trusting the local carrier with your SIM card data or trusting them to issue that SIM card. It helps you break even more of that trust link between your actual, your phone, your IMEI, and your phone usage and the end carrier who actually serves the SIM card itself.

So yeah, glad you mentioned those very important pieces there for network privacy, regardless of the SIM card issuer and all of that. And what do, since we've been talking a good bit about how you're actually connecting to a local provider, but they're not issuing you a SIM, what do people need to keep in mind when they're selecting that local provider on their phone to actually connect to? What are the key pieces there? Oh, the price. There can easily be a 10 times difference between the rates of local carrier networks.

Always check the rates on our site and always keep the network selection on manual with our SIM profiles if the price matters to you at all. Yeah, yeah, and I'm thankful you'll have a very good tool for just putting in what country you're in and being able to quickly see the network options that are available with the pricing. So you don't have to just guess or go to the website of that carrier or anything like that. You can just jump on silent.link and go to the pricing directly there.

So that's been something that I've been using when choosing networks. It just makes it a lot easier to have a central source there and obviously you know what those data prices are. So super helpful to have that in one place there. Yes, we'll try to keep it updated. We are going to publish a major update soon about next week. So please check it out. Awesome. Yeah, definitely. Definitely will do that. And then what are some of the more general limitations that the user should be aware of?

Obviously the concept of separating your SIM issuer from your actual data network is not one that many people are familiar with or even aware of as a possibility. So I'm sure there are some limitations there. So if you don't mind sharing a little bit about what people should be aware before they dive in and use Silent.Link. First of all, you should be aware of IMEI, the hardware identification number that your phone provides to a cellular network whenever it's connected to it or even while scanning for available networks.

This unique identification number is programmed into each and every phone. Usually one for the physical SIM card slot and one for all the eSIM profiles that are stored in your phone as you can actually store multiple eSIM profiles in any eSIM compatible phone. This means that if you were previously using this device with your local mobile network using an eSIM issued by them, the network will know it's the same device and likely the same person. If you were only using a physical SIM card with your local network, it will say different IMEI.

But whether it's possible to infer the connection between those identifiers or not, it's not known to us. Generally, it's recommended to use a new device sourced with a no KYC method, but we understand it's not a strict requirement for a lot of our users. Secondly, legacy voice calls. Please don't use legacy voice calls. Each and every voice call is being recorded and these recordings are retained for many years, sometimes indefinitely. On many networks, all the voice calls are also voice fingerprinted, allowing for the immediate identification of the participants of the call.

So while we are trying to provide our users with a full-fledged mobile communication experience, it kind of makes a little sense to get an anonymous solution and then destroy this anonymity with the first seconds of a legacy phone call. Hence, no outbound calls with our eSIMs. This is another limitation. Another reason for outbound calls being blocked with our service is that it's very difficult to source phone numbers with no KYC requirements and even much more so whenever voice calls are allowed.

Since voice call verification instead of text verification is a popular option, we found it possible to allow just the inbound calls on our plans. But we suggest that our users should never use these inbound calls to actually talk on the phone, unless in case of emergency. We suggest that you use a voice over IP service of your own choice to make and receive calls. There are plenty of no KYC options available. Let's take a quick break from this episode to chat about the sponsors of OptOut, Cake Wallet, and LocalMonero.

Cake Wallet is a key tool that I use daily as it allows me to easily and quickly use Monero for private by default payments. It's available in both iOS and Android and is a fantastic way to get started buying and using Monero with a simple and easy to understand user experience. I regularly onboard new users to Cake Wallet and hope that it will help simplify and ease your journey into cryptocurrency. If you're interested in purchasing Monero for the first time or helping to bring others into a parallel economy, I'd recommend you look at using LocalMonero, like I do, to buy and sell Monero while maintaining your privacy and avoiding invasive exchange surveillance.

LocalMonero is entirely peer-to-peer and is an important part of opting out of the surveillance state and into a parallel economy. Thank you to both sponsors for their incredible support and partnership. And I hope you'll take a moment after the episode to learn more in the show notes or at optoutpod.com slash sponsors. Yeah, definitely some key, I mean, I guess drawbacks or limitations, but obviously they're an intentional part of the design here.

And I did really think it was interesting that you have actually disallowed outbound calls. I just kind of assumed that it was a native requirement of the way you were sourcing the SIMs, but I like that you've kind of made that the default to help people avoid directly linking their voice and maybe other personal data. I mean, if someone called their doctor and had to walk through their name, number, and maybe even like a personal identifying number, like a driver's license or something like that, obviously that's going to provide the carrier who's processing that call a very easy way to link that SIM back to you, which if you're going to the trouble to source an eSIM like this through Silent.Link, obviously you're wanting that privacy and that disassociation from your ID itself.

So I hadn't considered that as the reason why outbound calls there were blocked, but definitely yet another reason to avoid using phone calls that are outside of a service like Signal or some sort of privacy-preserving voiceover IP service, which I haven't dug into that too much, so I don't really have any recommendations there as well for an active phone number, but I definitely try to use Signal voice calls with anyone I possibly can, which is a nice way to preserve privacy without having to jump through extra hoops, but definitely some key limitations and really just things people need to be aware of there with a different approach to mobile data and mobile networks through Silent.Link.

What other kind of similar tools are there out there that provide a service like Silent.Link? I mean, I haven't really heard of any, and I think that's why a lot of people in the privacy community were really excited when Silent.Link came out and started to gain some attention because I have not seen a service like this that does completely digital, anonymous eSIMs. It's a very unique thing, but a very necessary thing. But are there any kind of competitors or alternatives out there to Silent.Link?

And then what do you like most about your approach as compared to theirs? Our natural competitor is a corner shop that sells SIM cards for cash. Whenever you prefer to purchase your mobile service over internet, I suggest that you should use our service. So that kind of comes back to the point of what kind of law

20:00 and what information is kept of the activity of people who purchase an eSIM through Silent.Link. Yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more about what it is that people need to be aware of that you have access to, and then maybe the other people in that chain of SIM provider to mobile network provider that's local, all of those different pieces. If you don't mind walking through a little bit of what info is available to them and what logs information you keep specifically.

- We'd like our users and potential customers to understand that the product that's offered by Silent.Link is a result of combined efforts of different companies, such as number pool providers, eSIM profile issuers, billing and roaming providers that maintain each subscriber's account and pays for them being served by local carrier network, local carrier networks, and finally us retailers that pass the payments to the billing, roaming providers and number pool owners.

Most of the time these companies act in different jurisdictions. We do not collect any personal data from our customers, thus we do not have anything to keep. The only information that we store is when each and every profile was sold and the method of payment. Information about the country and the local carrier network being used by each customer is available to us from billing providers upon request for the purposes of user support. We do not store or keep this information.

The billing and roaming providers have all the information about your calls that I hope you don't use. Texts and what country you are and what network you are using. The number pool owners know who called you and who sent texts to you, but nothing else. Finally, the local carrier networks know the physical location of your device. They see your unique eSIM identifier. They know the time and duration of your calls, texts and data sessions, but they don't know your phone number or anything else.

Realistically, you should expect all these providers to collect and retain this information that is available to them. That is in no way tied to your identity, thanks to us. Yeah, that's a key call out for sure, is that each of the pieces of that mobile network, and you described it really well, but it's a complex one. There's so many different parties that are involved in that process of serving the mobile data and serving the phone number and all of that.

And it is important that people keep in mind that obviously, you have no control over how those other companies handle the data. Like, you're not running those other companies, obviously. You have no say in how they handle the data. So people need to remember that that's true of using a phone number through Silent.Link, using data through Silent.Link, and through any other carrier. I mean, that applies to just mobile networks generally. So it is a very important distinction that those organizations are likely retaining that data.

Well, we know they are retaining that data for long periods, oftentimes seven years or indefinitely. So it's important that we minimize the amount of data that they have. And obviously, like you mentioned, avoiding legacy phone calls as much as possible, avoiding SMS as much as possible, and then using a tool like Silent.Link so that those carriers never have access to your ID itself, never have access to those pieces of information that would directly tie you to that.

And that ESIM is a very important piece of that. And I'm glad that you all have chosen to support cryptocurrencies. Obviously, that's the easiest way to do privacy-preserving payments. And right now, you mainly support Bitcoin, but I know that you support Monero kind of through fixed float. But it's important that people, when they are paying for a service like Silent.Link, take their own financial privacy seriously and keep that in mind. So hopefully, if they're using Bitcoin, they're using a tool like Samourai Wallet to preserve their privacy, or just use Monero through fixed float, like we'll talk about a little bit later.

But all of those pieces kind of come together to give you as Silent.Link, the organization, as little information as possible, and to give the carriers themselves as little information as possible. So a very important piece of that. And I'm glad that you walked through the specific details of what each specific company that's in that service is actually able to see and collect, because that's not information I've seen published widely or really talked about widely.

And then another question around kind of how the network itself works is just kind of where are the eSIMs themselves sourced from? And then is there any information about the person who purchases the eSIM that you have to pass on to the SIM supplier? We do not publicly disclose the information about the particular companies involved in serving any of our users because it's in our paying customers' best interest. While trivial to any of our users to do his own research, on where the particular number was sourced from and what company had issued their SIM profile, we do not want to help any adversary to target involved companies to try to extract the available data in any way.

The conventional mobile subscriber provider's business is to make their customers as easily trackable as possible, because the user is the product for them. Our business is to make our customer as difficult to track as possible. We are deliberately, not publicly transparent in this regard, to protect our customers. With that in mind, our service is perfectly legal. We have an established Western European-based company with history much longer than the history of Silent.Link, and our jurisdiction allows us for offering the kinds of services we are offering all over the world.

So to cover the second question, the only information that we pass to the billing and roaming provider is the time and the amount of each to pop. Great. Thanks for diving into that. That's just, again, an answer I hadn't really considered in that you're protecting the users from simple SIM swap attacks and other attacks that could happen there because you're not revealing the information about who is actually providing the service behind that. And that's definitely an interesting piece.

And yeah, I'll have to keep that in mind because I think that's a helpful way to hide that data from simple adversaries. Obviously, you'll know where those SIMs are sourced from, but no one can just go on the Silent.Link website, look up where the SIMs are sourced from, and use that information to try to track down a specific number that they happen to know is sourced through Silent.Link. So definitely a very important piece there. And then what is it that makes the eSIM single use only and unable to be activated again?

I know this can cause some headache if you're like switching phones or having to re-flash your phone for some reason and you maybe lose the eSIM or even if you just accidentally delete it, you can't just re-enter all the information you used to initially activate it. So why is that? This is to protect our customers from SIM swaps, even if they fail to delete or securely keep the activation information that they obtained from us. Yeah, that definitely makes total sense so that no one else can just grab that eSIM profile or grab that specific link that you get when you order a SIM through Silent.Link.

If they happen to get that somehow or maybe break into your password manager, or you wrote it down on a piece of paper and they got access to it, they couldn't just use that info to activate the SIM themselves. And I guess that specifically is even more important when using eSIMs because they don't need to physically take the SIM or even work with the carrier to get that if they had that data and it could be activated again. That could be very problematic.

So I'm glad that you've taken that seriously and put that measure in place. And obviously, like you talked about on your website and I've gone through it too, you'll work with customers who need to activate that eSIM again to get the number moved over and balance moved over and everything like that. So it's not like you can't recover that, but it's definitely not as simple as just reentering the info on the new phone or after reinstalling or something like that.

Yeah, exactly. So diving into a few listener questions, I had a lot of feedback because I think there's just so much interest in a service like Sion Link. So I had a few questions that I pulled from that input from listeners that I wanted to walk through. And the first one was really just one that I was going to ask anyways, but I was glad to see so many people jump in and ask this. So I'm curious to hear more, but the question was, do you have plans to accept Monero directly to simplify privacy preserving payment?

We are considering this possibility, but it's not on the most urgent list since we have provided our customers that are willing to pay in Monero with the ways to do it. And we can see that the fixed float option is actually being actively used because we have a direct lightning channel with them. We love the current setup because it enables customers willing to pay with Monero to pay with Monero. And it allows us to focus on our main task because honestly, with Bitcoin, with lightning, with the antiquated mobile telecom technology, with the jurisdictional arbitrage, we have enough on our plate to deal with.

Yeah, that's definitely understandable. I think the main reason why I would love to see it is just because being able to pay directly with Monero is obviously a lot simpler and quicker than having to pay through fixed float. I have used that option. That's how I've paid in the past. I've tried both the Lightning

30:00 indirect Bitcoin piece of fixed float. But I do definitely, I would love to see Monero being added. And I know that going through the process of buying an eSIM, you all use BTC pay server for the actual payment backend, which has native Monero support that actually I help to maintain. So I would love to see that integration. And it should be very straightforward for you since you're already running software that natively integrates Monero if you choose.

But I'm also obviously always happy to jump in and help if you do need some kind of feedback on getting that set up. But I know a lot of people jumped into Twitter and chimed in on the need for direct Monero payments to simplify the process for those people, since it really is the easiest and simplest way to preserve your own privacy when paying, and even to preserve your privacy. Yes, I got linked to make sure that no one can see any details of the funds that you use after you pay.

But we'll see where that ends up. Yeah, thank you for that feedback. We'll look into integrating Monero native payments as soon as it's possible for us. Awesome. Yeah, definitely. Definitely glad to hear that. I know a lot of other people would love to see that, but I'm glad that you do accept Bitcoin and Lightning. And those open the door even for Monero users, like you mentioned, through FixFloat. So those are key and there are privacy preserving ways to use Bitcoin.

So hopefully people are using Samourai Wallet or potentially even using Lightning, even though the privacy of Lightning is a little bit less clear. But definitely an ability is there. So I'm thankful that you've put in the time and effort to taking Bitcoin payments natively and excited to see potentially Monero payments there. The second listener question that I had was, how is the privacy of the IMEI of the user's device preserved between active SIM cards?

And I know we touched on this a little bit in the earlier questions, just chatting about how there's that different IMEI between your physical SIM and your phone and your eSIMs, and that there's one shared between the eSIMs that you install. But do you mind going into maybe a little bit more detail about how IMEI privacy is preserved? All the eSIM profiles in your device will likely use the same IMEI. Plan your activity accordingly or source a fresh device.

I hope and expect to see some eSIM compatible devices with the user changeable IMEI available soon. But keep in mind that changing the IMEI of a mobile can be illegal in some countries. Yeah, and that's really the tricky part is that that IMEI is a static device identifier. It's not something that you as the user can change. And there are good reasons for that. I know that the key reason is that if a device is stolen, you can ask the carrier to blacklist that IMEI so that no one can use that phone on the network anymore, which is a good way to deter theft.

So I understand there are good reasons for it. But obviously, the privacy implications of having a static, unique device identifier for every phone can be quite bad. So it's definitely something that is important for people to be aware of. And then that's also one of the reasons why I like that Silent.Link uses eSIMs is that, like you've mentioned, the IMEI is unique between the eSIM and the physical SIM. I need to do some research on if there's any way for the carriers to see the other IMEIs on the device.

I don't think that there is. But I haven't looked deeply into that. But that's one of the reasons I'm glad that Silent.Link uses eSIMs is so you can disassociate that from the same IMEI that you're using for maybe a local network that you use for data more heavily. And maybe your ID is tied to that one. So you don't want a direct link between that IMEI and your Silent.Link IMEI. Yeah, definitely. It's for surveillance, not for to recover your stolen property.

Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't help you after the phone's stolen. It just, in theory, deters theft. That's really the only gain that would be there. But like you mentioned, the surveillance angle is the clearest one and the way that the mobile carriers themselves profit from that. Because they can very quickly see that you're the same entity even if you're using privacy-preserving technologies on top. Even if you're using different SIMs, you're constantly tying things back to that unique IMEI, which is a very sad thing.

And like you mentioned, I hope that we'll have devices that you can change the IMEI, at least of the eSIM slots, like whenever you want. But it'll be interesting to see where that goes. I doubt that that will actually happen. But we'd love to see that to allow users to preserve their own privacy. Oh, that will definitely happen. Oh, you think so? Okay, awesome. Yeah, I'm convinced. Yes. Nice. I will definitely look forward to that. And that'll be something I'll be grabbing and pushing for because that's a huge step forward in providing some more privacy from your carrier, which is obviously super important as we've been talking about all day.

And then the last listener question that I had for you was, how does topping up and just the general handling of your balance work after the initial purchase of the eSIM? We keep a substantial balance with each billing and roaming provider. And we send an order to top up the particular subscriber's account from this balance. Perfect. Yeah, I'm glad that process is pretty straightforward. And I don't know if we touched on it earlier. But for anybody who does go through and buy an eSIM through Silent.Link, be sure to save that info that you're given or at least save the order link that you get that's unique to each order through Silent.Link so that you always have that information available.

To be able to top that up, to be able to keep track of it, it's very important that you write that down because obviously you don't have a physical SIM or even a carrier that you can reach out to to get that kind of info back. You need to make sure to keep charge of that yourself. So super important that people do keep those things safe, keep them private, but keep them in a place where they can easily recover them if necessary. Yeah, this is a strict requirement to get later support because we have no information to authenticate the user request other than the order link.

Yeah, no user account. And IMSI is the minimum amount of information that you need to keep to top up a SIM because some of our SIMs have no phone number, so you have to use IMSI. Definitely makes sense there. Well, last question that I have for you is just how can people jump in and help to support what you're doing with Silent.Link? Just spread the word. It's simple. Yes. It's what I was excited about doing here. And I'm definitely thankful to see services like Silent.Link that seem to be caring deeply about users' privacy and providing good options to people who are taking their own privacy more seriously and trying to find good solutions.

I'm just thankful for the service that you've been providing so far. I've learned a ton today, so I'm thankful you took the time to walk us through that and just break down some of the details that aren't as apparent to people and a lot of the questions that the listeners had directly. So thank you for jumping on. And I hope that many people will look into Silent.Link and see if it's a good option for them. Thank you very much. Have a great rest of your day.

You too. Bye bye. Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoyed this episode of Opt Out. If you did, please take a moment and subscribe to the podcast. Or if you're already subscribed, share it with one friend or family member this week. As always, you can check out the link to the guest's content and contact info, as well as links to all of the tools we discussed in today's episode. Now get out there and opt out this week.